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	<title>Comments on: Piracy Dilemmas Part I &#8211; Would You Download It?</title>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4008</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-4008</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4003&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Magdalen&lt;/a&gt; LMAO at the idea of you being caught shoplifting porn! I&#039;d say the staff at the store had a good laugh once you&#039;d been packed off home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4003" rel="nofollow">@Magdalen</a> LMAO at the idea of you being caught shoplifting porn! I&#8217;d say the staff at the store had a good laugh once you&#8217;d been packed off home.</p>
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		<title>By: Magdalen</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4003</link>
		<dc:creator>Magdalen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, dear -- I should have guessed a bunch as smart as you guys would want details.  Vinyl albums are difficult to secret on one&#039;s person, I agree.  I know I stole them (I&#039;m not proud of it, but I *know* I did it!) but when I try to recall the details, all I come up with is a tote bag or cloth carrier bag large enough to hold a vinyl album.  It&#039;s a wonder I wasn&#039;t apprehended -- it&#039;s such a dumbass crime.

And while I&#039;m confessing all, I will tell you that my criminal career ended the day I was picked up for shoplifting porn.  Yes, that&#039;s right.  Porn.  And this is around 1970, so it was not feminist-friendly &quot;erotica&quot; but actual porn.  From a family-friendly big box store, to boot.  (I was -- what? 14? 16?  The age of stupidity, to be sure: I was too embarrassed to pay a cashier for a smutty paperback, but I didn&#039;t worry about getting arrested?  Really dumb.)  Anyway, two burly middle-aged guys pulled me into a dreary windowless room, asked me a bunch of rhetorical questions, gave me a stern warning, and when the smell of my flop sweat got too much for them I was allowed to leave.  Never stole anything ever again.

@Maili -- Yes, I saw that about Mr. Axelford&#039;s Angel!  I&#039;m seriously chuffed; I figure I will get it next time we&#039;re in the UK.  Ross (the DH) says my laptop (which is English; I have a £ sign, but the &quot; key is in entirely the wrong place!) will play the DVD, so I won&#039;t be limited to watching it once a year at my brother-in-law&#039;s in Yorkshire.  Whoo-hoo.  (And yes, I know I&#039;ll cringe when I watch it because the original magic was probably situation-specific.  Don&#039;t care though -- it&#039;s been such a touchstone of loss that having the opportunity to see it again is priceless.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, dear &#8212; I should have guessed a bunch as smart as you guys would want details.  Vinyl albums are difficult to secret on one&#8217;s person, I agree.  I know I stole them (I&#8217;m not proud of it, but I *know* I did it!) but when I try to recall the details, all I come up with is a tote bag or cloth carrier bag large enough to hold a vinyl album.  It&#8217;s a wonder I wasn&#8217;t apprehended &#8212; it&#8217;s such a dumbass crime.</p>
<p>And while I&#8217;m confessing all, I will tell you that my criminal career ended the day I was picked up for shoplifting porn.  Yes, that&#8217;s right.  Porn.  And this is around 1970, so it was not feminist-friendly &#8220;erotica&#8221; but actual porn.  From a family-friendly big box store, to boot.  (I was &#8212; what? 14? 16?  The age of stupidity, to be sure: I was too embarrassed to pay a cashier for a smutty paperback, but I didn&#8217;t worry about getting arrested?  Really dumb.)  Anyway, two burly middle-aged guys pulled me into a dreary windowless room, asked me a bunch of rhetorical questions, gave me a stern warning, and when the smell of my flop sweat got too much for them I was allowed to leave.  Never stole anything ever again.</p>
<p>@Maili &#8212; Yes, I saw that about Mr. Axelford&#8217;s Angel!  I&#8217;m seriously chuffed; I figure I will get it next time we&#8217;re in the UK.  Ross (the DH) says my laptop (which is English; I have a £ sign, but the &#8221; key is in entirely the wrong place!) will play the DVD, so I won&#8217;t be limited to watching it once a year at my brother-in-law&#8217;s in Yorkshire.  Whoo-hoo.  (And yes, I know I&#8217;ll cringe when I watch it because the original magic was probably situation-specific.  Don&#8217;t care though &#8212; it&#8217;s been such a touchstone of loss that having the opportunity to see it again is priceless.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3999</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3999</guid>
		<description>Add me to those laughing at the image of Magdalen smuggling a vinyl record out under her coat! How did you manage to conceal it? Or would that be revealing tricks of the trade? :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add me to those laughing at the image of Magdalen smuggling a vinyl record out under her coat! How did you manage to conceal it? Or would that be revealing tricks of the trade? <img src='http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Marissa</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>Marissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>HI Sarah,

I want to buy an e-reader as well but have not decided yet... Like you I have too many questions, what I don&#039;t understand that if they want to sell Kindle internationally, why not set up a division for it at Amazon.DE, then they could easily cover the European market, speaking of course from a European POV, since we live here... Well I am gonna wait a while longer before buying one, I want to know more, still too many questions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Sarah,</p>
<p>I want to buy an e-reader as well but have not decided yet&#8230; Like you I have too many questions, what I don&#8217;t understand that if they want to sell Kindle internationally, why not set up a division for it at Amazon.DE, then they could easily cover the European market, speaking of course from a European POV, since we live here&#8230; Well I am gonna wait a while longer before buying one, I want to know more, still too many questions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Maili</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3990</link>
		<dc:creator>Maili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3990</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-3981&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-3981&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Magdalen&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
And me?  Well, maybe it’s significant that I haven’t actually downloaded pirated material, but then again, I shoplifted vinyl albums in my misspent youth, so I’m no pattern card of virtue!  (Shoplifting music = Napster before the Internet!)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s the funniest thing I read today. Thank you so much for this. How did you manage to smuggle out a vinyl album, though? It&#039;s quite big, isn&#039;t it? Sorry, I&#039;m laughing hysterically at the image of a person - in a Miami Vice-type jacket (and rolled-up sleeves) with this odd-looking lump behind the buttoned v-front - coming out of a record shop. 

(cough) About &#039;Mr. Axelford’s Angel&#039; - it&#039;ll be released on DVD later this year. :D I don&#039;t have the details, but I remember hearing about it a few months ago. I can track down the DVD details if you&#039;re interested. 

As for the question? (laughing) I usually download public-domain films and avoid the rest.  

&quot;If the TV station are the copyright holders of the film, are they not encouraging its illegal distribution by not making it available to the public?&quot; 

Because they aren&#039;t always the full copyright holders. They may have a right to broadcast on own channel, but not necessarily a right to have it released on DVD or any other medium. In a way, TV programme, TV drama or TV film is like a patchwork quilt. Each patch is a right. The TV station might have up to five patches that would allow them to do as they please, but they have no right to other patches of said quilt. 

It varies from one case to another as well. If it&#039;s a play adaptation, it can be bloody tough to release it on DVD because it requires the playwright&#039;s agreement. (IMO, playwrights have more rights than any other writers including novelists, scriptwriters, tele-writers, etc.) 

Anyroad, the TV station can be a production company, a co-producer, investor or a distributor. If a TV film under the TV station is released on DVD, it doesn&#039;t necessarily mean another TV film under said station can be released on DVD - or any other means including video streaming - as well. 

The best thing to do is check their catalogue and if it&#039;s not listed, it usually means a production company holds DVD or worldwide rights. 

One could try contacting said company (and usually, some are happy to provide private copies), but 80% of TV production companies are defunct, which is a pain in the neck because it means tracking down the actual copyright holders. :P So yeah, it&#039;s easy to see why some decide to download rather than going through all that hassle just to get their paws on a legit copy. 

All that said, I&#039;m a lot more against YouTube/Google Video and other video streaming sites than torrent sites. Don&#039;t worry, I won&#039;t rant because this response is already far too long. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-3981"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-3981" rel="nofollow">Magdalen</a> :</strong><br />
And me?  Well, maybe it’s significant that I haven’t actually downloaded pirated material, but then again, I shoplifted vinyl albums in my misspent youth, so I’m no pattern card of virtue!  (Shoplifting music = Napster before the Internet!)</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s the funniest thing I read today. Thank you so much for this. How did you manage to smuggle out a vinyl album, though? It&#8217;s quite big, isn&#8217;t it? Sorry, I&#8217;m laughing hysterically at the image of a person &#8211; in a Miami Vice-type jacket (and rolled-up sleeves) with this odd-looking lump behind the buttoned v-front &#8211; coming out of a record shop. </p>
<p>(cough) About &#8216;Mr. Axelford’s Angel&#8217; &#8211; it&#8217;ll be released on DVD later this year. <img src='http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  I don&#8217;t have the details, but I remember hearing about it a few months ago. I can track down the DVD details if you&#8217;re interested. </p>
<p>As for the question? (laughing) I usually download public-domain films and avoid the rest.  </p>
<p>&#8220;If the TV station are the copyright holders of the film, are they not encouraging its illegal distribution by not making it available to the public?&#8221; </p>
<p>Because they aren&#8217;t always the full copyright holders. They may have a right to broadcast on own channel, but not necessarily a right to have it released on DVD or any other medium. In a way, TV programme, TV drama or TV film is like a patchwork quilt. Each patch is a right. The TV station might have up to five patches that would allow them to do as they please, but they have no right to other patches of said quilt. </p>
<p>It varies from one case to another as well. If it&#8217;s a play adaptation, it can be bloody tough to release it on DVD because it requires the playwright&#8217;s agreement. (IMO, playwrights have more rights than any other writers including novelists, scriptwriters, tele-writers, etc.) </p>
<p>Anyroad, the TV station can be a production company, a co-producer, investor or a distributor. If a TV film under the TV station is released on DVD, it doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean another TV film under said station can be released on DVD &#8211; or any other means including video streaming &#8211; as well. </p>
<p>The best thing to do is check their catalogue and if it&#8217;s not listed, it usually means a production company holds DVD or worldwide rights. </p>
<p>One could try contacting said company (and usually, some are happy to provide private copies), but 80% of TV production companies are defunct, which is a pain in the neck because it means tracking down the actual copyright holders. <img src='http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  So yeah, it&#8217;s easy to see why some decide to download rather than going through all that hassle just to get their paws on a legit copy. </p>
<p>All that said, I&#8217;m a lot more against YouTube/Google Video and other video streaming sites than torrent sites. Don&#8217;t worry, I won&#8217;t rant because this response is already far too long. <img src='http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: heidenkind</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3988</link>
		<dc:creator>heidenkind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 01:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3988</guid>
		<description>The TV station could make the movie easily available for download on demand if they wanted, and likely make more money off of it if they released it on DVD.  If they don&#039;t and there are pirated copies available, personally I don&#039;t see a problem with downloading an &quot;unofficial&quot; copy, no.  Especially since I&#039;m probably not paying for the pirated download.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The TV station could make the movie easily available for download on demand if they wanted, and likely make more money off of it if they released it on DVD.  If they don&#8217;t and there are pirated copies available, personally I don&#8217;t see a problem with downloading an &#8220;unofficial&#8221; copy, no.  Especially since I&#8217;m probably not paying for the pirated download.</p>
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		<title>By: Edie</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3982</link>
		<dc:creator>Edie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3982</guid>
		<description>Some sellers are such thieves. \o/ :P
But realistically if there is no signs of a new edition being printed and used copies are scarce on the ground, then of course that is going to be reflected in the used book price. 

I am not a pirate! Am not! 

lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some sellers are such thieves. \o/ <img src='http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
But realistically if there is no signs of a new edition being printed and used copies are scarce on the ground, then of course that is going to be reflected in the used book price. </p>
<p>I am not a pirate! Am not! </p>
<p>lol</p>
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		<title>By: Magdalen</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3981</link>
		<dc:creator>Magdalen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3981</guid>
		<description>I am this person (minus the filesharing website)!  Years ago, I saw a wonderful made-for-TV movie from British TV -- &quot;Mr. Axelford&#039;s Angel.&quot;  Pure romance novel:  rich but socially awkward hero hires a pretty but unsophisticated personal assistant.  She immediately sees past the ££££ in his bank balance and they fall in love.  But the cultural differences take some sorting out, so for a while it looks as though they won&#039;t end up together.  But they do!  *ahhhhhh*

It may now be available on DVD -- but of course only in the UK, and only playable on UK TV sets.  (I may still buy it and keep it at my brother-in-law&#039;s house in Yorkshire -- and watch it once a year!)  But for years it wasn&#039;t available at all.  

So, let me ask myself:  Would I have downloaded it?  Hmm.  It&#039;s what&#039;s known as a &quot;victimless crime.&quot;  Illegal but not actually harming anyone.  I agree with Sewicked&#039;s friend; if you do download it illegally because you have no other option, then pay the full freight when the DVD is available.

And me?  Well, maybe it&#039;s significant that I haven&#039;t actually downloaded pirated material, but then again, I shoplifted vinyl albums in my misspent youth, so I&#039;m no pattern card of virtue!  (Shoplifting music = Napster before the Internet!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am this person (minus the filesharing website)!  Years ago, I saw a wonderful made-for-TV movie from British TV &#8212; &#8220;Mr. Axelford&#8217;s Angel.&#8221;  Pure romance novel:  rich but socially awkward hero hires a pretty but unsophisticated personal assistant.  She immediately sees past the ££££ in his bank balance and they fall in love.  But the cultural differences take some sorting out, so for a while it looks as though they won&#8217;t end up together.  But they do!  *ahhhhhh*</p>
<p>It may now be available on DVD &#8212; but of course only in the UK, and only playable on UK TV sets.  (I may still buy it and keep it at my brother-in-law&#8217;s house in Yorkshire &#8212; and watch it once a year!)  But for years it wasn&#8217;t available at all.  </p>
<p>So, let me ask myself:  Would I have downloaded it?  Hmm.  It&#8217;s what&#8217;s known as a &#8220;victimless crime.&#8221;  Illegal but not actually harming anyone.  I agree with Sewicked&#8217;s friend; if you do download it illegally because you have no other option, then pay the full freight when the DVD is available.</p>
<p>And me?  Well, maybe it&#8217;s significant that I haven&#8217;t actually downloaded pirated material, but then again, I shoplifted vinyl albums in my misspent youth, so I&#8217;m no pattern card of virtue!  (Shoplifting music = Napster before the Internet!)</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3965</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3965</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-3962&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Nonny&lt;/a&gt; The prices sellers charge for some out of print books are staggering. That&#039;s why I think sites such as http://www.regencyreads.com/ are a brilliant idea for authors who have gotten their rights back on their OOP books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-3962" rel="nofollow">@Nonny</a> The prices sellers charge for some out of print books are staggering. That&#8217;s why I think sites such as <a href="http://www.regencyreads.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.regencyreads.com/</a> are a brilliant idea for authors who have gotten their rights back on their OOP books.</p>
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		<title>By: Nonny</title>
		<link>http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/2009/10/06/piracy-dilemmas-part-i-would-you-download-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3962</link>
		<dc:creator>Nonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monkeybearreviews.com/?p=2019#comment-3962</guid>
		<description>I have actually done this. I&#039;ve downloaded old tv shows that were never released on disc or vhs. Usually the quality is sucktastic since it&#039;s frequently a rip of what someone recorded on their vhs. 

If there is no way to get a legitimate copy, I don&#039;t see the problem. Most people in that situation, myself included, will go out and buy the legit copy when/if it becomes available.

As for the commenters saying &quot;buy it used&quot; -- that doesn&#039;t make the copyright owner any money either, which is the point that people are arguing. It makes the reseller money. Also if something is that rare, it&#039;s frequent that resellers charge crazy amounts of money for it because it&#039;s a &quot;collector&#039;s item&quot; now; I&#039;ve seen listings of old tv shows that are no longer available in the $200 range for a vhs tape. Sorry, but that&#039;s simply not worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have actually done this. I&#8217;ve downloaded old tv shows that were never released on disc or vhs. Usually the quality is sucktastic since it&#8217;s frequently a rip of what someone recorded on their vhs. </p>
<p>If there is no way to get a legitimate copy, I don&#8217;t see the problem. Most people in that situation, myself included, will go out and buy the legit copy when/if it becomes available.</p>
<p>As for the commenters saying &#8220;buy it used&#8221; &#8212; that doesn&#8217;t make the copyright owner any money either, which is the point that people are arguing. It makes the reseller money. Also if something is that rare, it&#8217;s frequent that resellers charge crazy amounts of money for it because it&#8217;s a &#8220;collector&#8217;s item&#8221; now; I&#8217;ve seen listings of old tv shows that are no longer available in the $200 range for a vhs tape. Sorry, but that&#8217;s simply not worth it.</p>
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